Amy Wang has spent 20+ years building things from nothing. She helped open a hospital as the ninth employee and scaled it to 2,500. She wore a hard hat over a business suit, slept in her car, and worked 120 hours a week to make sure her team delivered on time and on budget.
July 20, 2026
Being Good at Your Job Isn't Enough Anymore | Amy Wang
Amy Wang has spent 20+ years building things from nothing. She helped open a hospital as the ninth employee and scaled it to 2,500. She wore a hard hat over a business suit, slept in her car, and worked 120 hours a week to make sure her team delivered on time and on budget. She learned, the hard way, that success in silence isn't success at all, and that bringing people along on the journey matters just as much as (if not more than) the destination. In our very first episode, we covered:
→ Why being the best at your job isn't enough to get ahead, and what you actually need to do instead
→ How Amy made a grown man cry without yelling once → The real price of always being the calm one in the room
→ What she would tell her 25-year-old self about over-proving and boundaries
→ Why young talent today is making smarter choices than the generation before them
My big takeaway was how often organizations reward visibility over substance. Amy consistently took on more than expected and carried a significant amount behind the scenes, but she wasn’t someone who felt the need to constantly broadcast it.
Amy, thank you for being my very first guest on Talk Real Shift! You rock and so does your story!
0:00 - Welcome to Talk Real Shift
1:04 - Introducing Amy Wang
1:53 - Amy's Background: From Pre-Med to HR Executive
6:27 - What Built Amy's Career: Restaurants, Lean, and Calm Under Pressure
10:12 - Employee #9: Building a Hospital From the Ground Up
13:21 - The Real Lesson: Working Hard in Silence Gets You Overlooked
16:37 - How to Bring People Along on the Journey
19:53 - Standing Up for Your Work: The Boardroom Confrontation
23:16 - Being Labeled "Too Emotional" as a Leader
30:05 - The Real Cost of Executive Leadership: Family and Sacrifice
37:55 - Why Younger Talent Is Making Smarter Choices Today
43:05 - Setting Boundaries When You're a Natural Giver
49:27 - What Amy Would Tell Her 25-Year-Old Self
51:02 - Amy's New Company and How to Follow Her
Amy Wang: [00:00:00] No complaining, just work harder. That's how I grew up. I literally spent probably 120 hours there a week. It was such a devastating lesson for me because I sacrificed so much time and energy. I think I aged, like, 20 years from that. I'm not kidding. It was terrible. Yeah. I didn't see my children. I didn't see my husband.
It was a really hard time.
Devin: It's not enough to just be the best.
Amy Wang: That was the time that I actually made a grown man cry. You can still be very authentic and transparent. I think it's important to stop over-proving yourself. Yeah. You're good enough as you are.
Devin: Welcome to Talk Real Shift. I'm your host, Devin Froshizer. Today is our very first episode, and I'm so excited to be sharing it with Amy Wang. Sh- Amy is the former head of HR and shared services at Mercedes-Benz, and she is also the founder and [00:01:00] principal of BAW Strategic Advisory.
You're gonna wanna stay tuned as I talk with Amy about some real shift as we delve into being really good at your job isn't enough anymore, even in the age of AI. You have to do more than just be the best at what you do.
Devin: So Amy, welcome. I'm so excited to have you here. Uh, you know, a lot of our guests on Talk Real Shift are, uh, various executives just like yourself in the automotive industry and other manufacturing spaces.
Um, but you're my friend, and this is partly because of you. Aw. Right?
Devin: Uh, so I'm really excited for our conversation today to kinda dive in. Uh, before we really get into talking some, some real shift, uh, will you kinda share, because I know a ton about you, but our listeners don't, kinda share a little bit about your background and [00:02:00] how you've gotten to where you are today?
Amy Wang: Wow, that's a long question. Um, well, so most recently I used to, I worked in automotive. Um, I was a former head of HR for Mercedes-Benz North America. Prior to that, I worked in higher education, I worked in healthcare, um, and then before I worked at startups, and then the other automotive as well. So I've been in a lot of different industries in a lot of different roles.
Um, you- like I said, most recently an official HR title. Mm-hmm. But prior, I've worked in procurement and IT, operations, shared services, across all those roles. And foundationally, I think I've always been doing HR work because when I helped build a hospital, build organizations, create shared services, there's so much foundational HR work that isn't even acknowledged without, with a title.
Right. Right? So, um, this is my first official HR title. Mm. But having, you know, studied in HR, had, I have an undergrad in industrial organizational [00:03:00] psychology, you know, I- I didn't
Devin: know that.
Amy Wang: I, yeah.
Devin: Ah.
Amy Wang: It was by de- by accident.
Devin: Okay.
Amy Wang: It was not intentional. I actually went in pre-med- Because I thought, you know, I wanted to, I like to learn and I thought, well, you know, this is a way to go to school a lot.
Devin: Mm-hmm.
Amy Wang: So I went pre-med and then I realized I didn't really like that part-
Devin: Yeah ...
Amy Wang: of actually touching the patients, right? Having gone through and like, oh, there's a lot more to it than just studying it.
Devin: Right.
Amy Wang: And I went to my counselor, 'cause I wanted to graduate in four years, and they said, "Well, based on all the credits you have, go with industrial organizational psychology."
Devin: Interesting.
Amy Wang: I had no idea what that meant.
Devin: Yeah.
Amy Wang: But I wanted to graduate in four years.
Devin: Fair.
Amy Wang: And so because I had a lot of statistics with my undergrad origi- originally, that's how it, it transitioned to, to that.
Devin: Ah,
Amy Wang: okay. Now, never really understood what that meant, right? I hadn't really worked anywhere except for family businesses, small retail, other stores.
Devin: Mm-hmm.
Amy Wang: They didn't [00:04:00] really have official HR in any of those places, so I didn't know what that was-
Devin: Okay ...
Amy Wang: right when I was in undergrad.
Devin: Mm-hmm.
Amy Wang: You know, fast-forward many, many years later, future state, finally applied it officially, right? With, "Hey, this is my industrial organizational psychology degree." Actually makes sense- Mm-hmm ... when you're looking at workforce analytics and, and people performance, and all those types of things. You're like, "Oh, this is why I have this."
Devin: Right.
Amy Wang: You know, this is why all these things matter. This is how you look at compensation, how you look at pay, all those things.
Devin: Mm-hmm.
Amy Wang: But didn't know that when I was, early on- Right ... that those skills would be transferable, right?
Devin: Interesting.
Amy Wang: When I had this HR job, I felt like I really had to be more official, right?
So I did get SHRM certified while I was working the, at my last role. Okay. Just 'cause it seemed more official.
Devin: Yeah.
Amy Wang: Right? Um, just to go with the title, and, and my master's degree did have management in there anyways, and there were HR classes. So there's always been peppering of HR work [00:05:00] and efforts and, and, I guess, certifications in education.
Right. But yeah, so the first real title, and for a major company, so it was kinda cool.
Devin: That's exciting. And, you know, we were talking earlier, I feel like you're the, the perfect personality for HR because you're so even-keeled, right? When you're trying to support the organization through turbulent times, and people which are, um, unpredictable, we'll say it that way, right?
If people are unpredictable, your tone, your approach, you have a way of just bringing calmness to the conversation- Mm-hmm ... and, and you're, you, you are. You're so even-keeled, and I'm like this, this rollercoaster, right? And the, the inflection in my voice and, um, my lack of poker face. Like, you are just this calming presence, but being a calming presence doesn't mean you're a pushover.[00:06:00]
Right?
Amy Wang: No, it doesn't.
Devin: Okay, so let's talk some real shift. Um, you've gotten through- All these various roles throughout your career from procurement to IT to HR, from startups to massive conglomerates. Uh, how did you, how did you propel your career and your performance? What made the difference for you?
Amy Wang: Oh, I think a number of things.
I mean, one of the things I always tell people early in their career is no matter what you wanna do, go work in customer service.
Devin: Mm.
Amy Wang: So I worked in the restaurant business many, many years growing up 'cause my family was in the restaurant business. We had stores, we had little bakeries, and so I learned early on that you have to just be calm and really try to dif- you know, just take things down a notch when things get emotional or heavy or difficult.
Mm-hmm. And you see that in restaurants, right? [00:07:00] It's often chaotic. Right. There's so much going on, and I learned a lot from both, uh, my parents at restaurants, and then I worked in this Japanese restaurant in undergrad And that particular restaurant, I learned how to apply lean in the restaurant business.
Devin: Okay.
Amy Wang: And we learned so much discipline in this restaurant. You would be surprised. We were... Over the years I worked there, I learned to really have, like, cut steps in terms of how you deliver food- Okay ... how to maximize the time from point A to point B, and no matter how busy it was, and it was a really, really busy place, to be calm, to smile.
And I was wearing a kimono back then, so also be able to walk very quickly without- Right ... having to take, like, big steps. Mm-hmm. So you really had to be efficient in your steps. But one interesting thing I learned from there, and I don't think I could do it now, 'cause I'm way too old for it, is- [00:08:00] No ... I would never have to write down any of the orders, no matter how many tables I took.
I don't
Devin: know how people do that.
Amy Wang: And that's something, like, I think you just kinda learn s- over time with practice, right? I mean, I don't know. I couldn't tell you how I did it, but this is part of why I used to want to be a doctor, because I had a photographic memory growing up. Unbelievable. So I could read, like, I could look at something.
Like, my dad would, used to make me look at newspapers and recite the newspaper back at him when I was a kid. I can't do that now. I have this. I couldn't tell you what it's on here. I can't do it. But one of the things we used to do was I would just take orders, and I could have a two-top or a 30-top, and I would never have to write down anybody's order.
That's unbelievable. I would take their drink order, their appetizers, their entrees, their sushi orders, whatever it was, and we would never write it down. And you had to be calm, because you could not... If you just kind of broke your rhythm, you would forget.
Devin: Everything.
Amy Wang: You'd forget everything.
Devin: Wow.
Amy Wang: Right? So that was something that I learned just in order to be calm.
And I think over time, right, I applied that over multiple roles [00:09:00] I've had. Working in startups-
Devin: Mm-hmm ... you
Amy Wang: can't be frantic.
Devin: No.
Amy Wang: Um, working in healthcare.
Devin: Yeah.
Amy Wang: Um, I was in higher education. You could probably be a little bit more, but I really wasn't, 'cause academia is more still calm.
Devin: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Amy Wang: And in my most recent role, so in HR, where really applied a lot of those things, where I think things could've been more heated-
Devin: Mm-hmm
Amy Wang: um, especially with so much change and, and things going on. But it's just something I think I've learned. It might not be the best skill set to have over time, because I think I retain- And not let go- Ah, yeah ... of things when it is tough, right? Mm-hmm. So, uh, maybe if I had the ups and downs like
Devin: you do- You could blow
Amy Wang: off
Devin: steam
join- You're welcome to join the rollercoaster- Yeah ... at any time. Blow
Amy Wang: off the steam and not- Yeah ... have it, you know. Like, instead, I think I carry it in my neck and shoulder, and I don't let go, right? It's hard. It's probably super unhealthy.
Devin: Yeah, it, I don't think it's very healthy.
Amy Wang: No, probably not.
Devin: No. We can, we can hang out more, and I will teach you the art of, uh-
expressiveness. Yeah. Not that you're not expressive, 'cause you are expressive, but, [00:10:00] um, has there been a point in your career where you felt like you worked really, really hard, and it just wasn't enough?
Amy Wang: So many times.
Devin: Okay. In early career. Uh- Tell me that shift.
Amy Wang: Okay. One of the ones that really s- um, strike me in my mind, and I will never forget, is I was part of the founding team that opened a hospital.
So I was employee number nine, and- Number
Devin: nine?
Amy Wang: Number nine. And- Okay ... I was able to help scale this hospital from nine people to, like, 2,500 people.
Devin: Impressive.
Amy Wang: And when you're that early on, uh, there was actually no hospital, right? So we actually- Mm-hmm ... I was part of the team that helped build the hospital from ground up with hundreds of other people.
Devin: Mm-hmm.
Amy Wang: Right? So you really learn everything from soup to nuts in what it takes to actually stand up an organization and make it go live. I was responsible for IT. Okay. So that part didn't actually happen till you actually have more in place. There's so much planning and coordination- Right ... that happens, but, [00:11:00] like, when I was brought in, um, the person that hired me, which was the CNO, COO, thought, "Well, all I actually need you to do is plug things in."
Yeah. That was the whole idea, right?
Devin: Yeah. Did you restart it?
Amy Wang: What would I
Devin: even say?
Amy Wang: There was nothing to restart. There was nothing- Yeah ... to plug in. S- so- Okay ... so that was something, you know, that they had that concept, right? Right. It was, like, so easy.
Devin: Yeah.
Amy Wang: And unfortunately for me, that's also my mentality.
Well, even if it's really difficult growing up, we're gonna just make it work. Right. So much grit into making things work.
Devin: Yeah.
Amy Wang: Right? Um, no complaining, just work harder. That's how I grew up. I mean, the, when you have small businesses-
Devin: Mm-hmm ...
Amy Wang: growing up- Your solution is you just work harder.
Devin: Right.
Amy Wang: Right?
There's nothing else you- You just
Devin: figure it out ...
Amy Wang: you figure it out. You work harder. Mm-hmm. There's no whining. There's no complaining. No. Just get it done with- Yeah ... a smile on your face. Yes, exactly like that. Always. And so I did that my, um, building this hospital.
Devin: Okay.
Amy Wang: And, you know, I [00:12:00] had other colleagues.
The areas maybe were not on time or on budget or-
Devin: But you were.
Amy Wang: But I was, because I literally spent probably 120 hours there a week, week after week- That's insane ... after week in my little hard hat, my little, um, you know, vest, and steel-toe shoes over a suit, 'cause we always had to wear our business suits.
Devin: Mm.
Amy Wang: And slept there. I had a blow-up mattress, or I'd sleep in my car, 'cause when there was no building, and-
Devin: Right ...
Amy Wang: it, it was kind of a waste of time at times to drive home-
Devin: Mm-hmm ...
Amy Wang: and come back. I- You sleep
Devin: in your
Amy Wang: car.
Devin: I've been there. I've been there. Where you sleep in the c- because it, because you, you've dedicated so much.
Amy Wang: Yes.
Devin: And you're like, "I will not f-" Like, your personality type does not allow you to fail.
Amy Wang: Does not. And
Devin: so- Which
Amy Wang: is terrible.
Devin: Y- y- right. And so if that means you go without sleep, you go without sleep- Right ... but you do not fail.
Amy Wang: Right.
Devin: Okay. So you're putting in 120 hours a week. You're s- A month. A m- you're [00:13:00] sleeping in your car.
Amy Wang: Yes.
Devin: And, and you're on time, but your counterpart
Amy Wang: Counterpart's not so much.
Devin: Okay.
Amy Wang: What I learned was the counterpart was able to escalate, bring people along with their challenges, um, spend time with everybody and have fun while they're doing it. They were
Devin: networking.
Amy Wang: They were networking. They knew how to really broadcast their story to the higher levels.
Devin: Okay.
Amy Wang: I did not so much. I was great with my team- Right ... and my, some of the others, the peers. We got our job done and rallied the troops, and we really delivered. Right. Right? Whereas what I failed to do was constantly... I only showed the positives of our accomplishments.
Devin: Right.
Amy Wang: I didn't show the journey that my team took- To get there
to
Devin: get there. Mm.
Amy Wang: And the pain and the suffering. We didn't escalate enough. We didn't, um, just bring people along- Right ... so that they were exper- [00:14:00] their skin was in the game. They were experiencing the pain with us.
Devin: You j- you guys just kept doing it- Just kept doing it ...
Amy Wang: because
Devin: that's what you're supposed to do.
Amy Wang: Right.
Devin: You just keep working.
Amy Wang: That's all I knew, and at the end when there was recognition, they were recognized for all their success and-
Devin: Even though they didn't meet their metrics like you did.
Amy Wang: Correct, but they knew how to market themselves, promote themselves, network. It was such a devastating lesson for me because I sacrificed so much time and energy.
Um, I think I aged, like, 20 years from that. I'm not kidding. It was terrible. Yeah. You know, I didn't see my children. I didn't see my husband. It was a really hard time. Um, and what g- what did I get out of it was a really hard lesson. Um- But
Devin: an important one.
Amy Wang: An important one. You know, and, and from there I've learned, right, that success is important, but so is the journey, and so it's bringing everybody along and making sure that all your stakeholders don't just [00:15:00] hear about you hitting the milestones and- show that you've done all these things because they take it for granted.
You know, circling back, they think you're just plugging something in.
Devin: Mm.
Amy Wang: And how easy is that?
Devin: Because, so that was the perception. The perception was that your team was just plugging something in. You guys had it easier than- Anybody else ... their team had it.
Amy Wang: Right.
Devin: And so the fact that they, even though they didn't meet expectations or KPIs or timelines like you did, their workload was just so much more difficult than yours.
Amy Wang: Right.
Devin: And that wasn't the reality, was it?
Amy Wang: No. But that was the unfortunate reality that I created by just really heads down and working hard, right? And had I known earlier on that the mentality was just plugging it in, I didn't realize I was perpetuating that story that we're just plugging it in, right?
Oh
Devin: my
Amy Wang: goodness. And that was such a shift.
Devin: That's some real shift, right? Like- That's a real shift ... it's not just about being the best at your job. If you're not [00:16:00] bringing a network of people on that journey with you to share your story when you're not in the room-
Amy Wang: Right ...
Devin: then you're not moving, right? Right.
So if you want that next promotion or that next opportunity, it's not enough anymore, even in the age of AI, right? It's, it's not enough to just be the best. You have to focus on networking and, and bringing people along with you.
Amy Wang: Yeah, and sharing your story, like how you got there, right? Yeah. Because otherwise it's, "You just plugged it in."
Devin: You just plugged
Amy Wang: it in. And why would you get recognized for that?
Devin: You wouldn't. I wouldn't. I mean- Yeah ...
Amy Wang: I'd
Devin: be like-
Amy Wang: Good job. You
Devin: did it. Yeah, right. You get a pat on the back. You did what was expected-
Amy Wang: Right ...
Devin: of you. You didn't just do what was expected of you, you went above and beyond. And, and there's a unique way where you have to share that information, right?
Because you can't just share the information and say, um, "Woe is me."
Amy Wang: [00:17:00] Right.
Devin: Or come across as a Negative Nancy, right? Right. You have to bring it with solutions as, as well. 'Cause as a manager, that used to be one of the things that would grind my gears. "Cool. Thank you for telling me there's a problem."
Amy Wang: Right.
Devin: "What have you done to critically think through a handful of solutions, and then let's problem solve together. But I wanna know that you've, you've shared a little bit."
Amy Wang: Right.
Devin: But you didn't, you didn't, you didn't share the story at all.
Amy Wang: I shared our successes, right? Yeah. And I didn't bring the problems forward, because that was the other thing, right?
I had learned early on, why, why would I be the one bringing problems forward? I'll bring the solutions, I'll bring the successes, and the completion of tasks, right? And not get in the way, because I didn't wanna be, oh- Mm ... you know, another person in the way of- Everything else, right?
Devin: Wow.
Amy Wang: And, um, I just felt like this is what we had to get done.
'Cause that's how I was raised, unfortunately, in a way too, right? Yeah. Because when you have a s- when you grow up in startups, [00:18:00] you just keep going.
Devin: You don't stop. You're gonna make it work. I've learned that. I've learned that 'cause now I'm in my first startup, right? I've gone from two, thr- I mean, three massive, massive conglomerates to a startup, and you don't get to just have one job.
Amy Wang: Right.
Devin: Right? Like, everybody has multiple jobs that you're working together, and it- it's- it's insane hours, it's insane dedication, but you believe in it-
Amy Wang: Yeah ...
Devin: so you, so you do it.
Amy Wang: Right.
Devin: But even myself recently, um, I've been like, "Oh, goodness, I had to take people on the journey and open up to what I'm seeing," otherwise somebody's gonna paint the, somebody's gonna paint the narrative for me-
Amy Wang: Right
Devin: about me-
Amy Wang: Right ...
Devin: and about what I'm doing.
Amy Wang: And I think that's so important to show that, right? It shows you as more of an authentic leader.
Devin: Yeah.
Amy Wang: W- be more transparent, and those are the things that, you know, I grew up, my parents always thinking, you know, ev- you have to show everything's polished and everything's perfect.
Devin: Yeah.
Amy Wang: And that was a lesson that I had to, like, [00:19:00] undo, right? Mm. With this, with this build because being truly authentic helps bring people along. You can't just be polished. You can't just- No ... show everything working. Now, if I can still, like, break the calmness and still be like, and jump around, maybe it'll be different, but I mean- Yeah
y- I still, you know, but I, it, you still have to bring people along, and they still have to understand, right? I can't just- Yeah. So some things you can't totally change, but-
Devin: Right. Yeah, you know. But how... Has there been a time where you've applied this in a different situation where you've been more outspoken that's had a pivotal change in your career as well?
Amy Wang: So yes. Um, so this is even actually earlier in my career, which surprisingly, you know, the lesson didn't apply exactly the same.
Devin: Mm.
Amy Wang: But early in my career, I worked for a startup, and, um, my responsibility with, um, my colleague, the two of us were supposed to put together this major playbook for a email implementation that we're doing.[00:20:00]
Devin: Okay.
Amy Wang: And it was a big deal because it was for a, another major automotive that we were implementing their email system across the globe for all of their, um, dealer employees. And so our role was putting together this implementation plan. Okay, so this is embarrassing 'cause- ... it's because it was a binder, right?
It was on paper. It's just not digital. We wrote, we typed it all up, had it printed out. Okay. And we were ready to present this binder. And I carried it into the boardroom-
Devin: Yeah ...
Amy Wang: and with my colleague, the two of us, and our project team leader yanked it out of my hand-
Devin: Oh. Oh ...
Amy Wang: and presented it as his own when he had not a single contribution on any single thing- Hmm.
Hmm ... on that entire plan.
Devin: Okay. I know how I, I, I don't respond well to that. Like, you don't snatch from me. But how did you respond?
Amy Wang: I didn't yell at him or anything like that.
Devin: Because you can't?
Amy Wang: You can't. And but I did call him out and just question it. [00:21:00]
Devin: Hmm.
Amy Wang: You know, very professionally and politely, I questioned it.
Um, I made multiple comparisons, and I, I quizzed him on what he may or may not known about the, the content.
Devin: To prove that he didn't-
Amy Wang: Know anything ... make it.
Devin: Yeah.
Amy Wang: Maybe I could have handled it differently, but I think my questions were very probing. And, um, recently, the colleague that was with this project with me reminded me that that was the time that I actually made a grown man cry.
So you don't have to yell apparently. No. You can still be very authentic and transparent and stand up for yourself, create boundaries, still own your work, and be proud of your work, right?
Devin: Right.
Amy Wang: And so, and I think that's what it was because I have this tendency to put so much into effort, so w- into my efforts.
Devin: Mm-hmm.
Amy Wang: So this is one with a startup. This particular startup believed that at the time the internet didn't sleep, so neither do you. So it was another one of those jobs I was working- [00:22:00] Okay ... like 100 hours a week. Yeah. I won't do that anymore. This is all when I was much younger. Yeah. And, um, and that's what we believed, right?
Right. So we put so much effort into this, and for it to literally be snatched out of my hands, I was livid.
Devin: Yeah.
Amy Wang: And so I didn't mince very wor- many words. Um, I probably used words that I will not share here, so that way we were not-
Devin: Censored. Fair. Fair. You said some real shift. Yes. Fair enough.
Amy Wang: Yes.
Devin: Okay.
Amy Wang: But I did it calmly. Yeah. Right? And I did it in a way that made him realize that I didn't really care for his behavior.
Devin: Right.
Amy Wang: Um, and so to this day, like I said, my colleague and I are still friends-
Devin: Mm-hmm ...
Amy Wang: reminded me of when you have to stand up for yourself-
Devin: You have to
Amy Wang: and sometimes you have to make a grown man cry.
Devin: Sometimes you need to make a grown man cry. I like that. I like that. I'm gonna shift things up a little bit on you. [00:23:00] So one of the things that I have faced throughout my career is being told, like, "You're too emotional." And in very recently in my career, I remember pushing back on somebody's decision, right?
Because I was like, it wasn't the right decision for the company, and I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. Yeah. But when I'm confident that the decision that we're going to go can have negative consequences for the company and its people, I will not stay quiet, right? Mm-hmm. Because everybody is impacted negatively by that.
And my daughter was, you know, I don't know, five and a half, so she's seven now, so maybe it wasn't too recent. Time flies. Um, but she was in the car with me- Mm-hmm ... and I'm telling this person these facts, and I'm just rattling them off, right? Like fact one, fact two, fact three, and I'm using the same inflection and tone that [00:24:00] we're talking right- Yeah
right now, right? And their response was like, "Devon, don't be so emotional. Think like a leader." And I'm like, "Well, I, I'm not. Like, I'm just giving you the, like, the data points and the and the actual facts. Like, these are metrics, and they're, they're data points that should be driving the, the decision." And after we got off the call, my daughter goes, "Mommy, why was he telling you that you're having big feelings?"
'Cause that's what we use, right? You're having big feelings- Aw ... when you're being emotional. And I'm like, "I don't know, but unfortunately, you may face this in your life," right? And so it's important to remember when you're building a case, when you're defending yourself, when you're standing up for what's right, how you do [00:25:00] that matters.
Amy Wang: Mm-hmm.
Devin: Because if you go in and you attack- You're just gonna be labeled as emotional, as not a good leader, as all of these things. Have you experienced something sim- I've got to imagine you've experienced similar things throughout your career.
Amy Wang: I have, but on the recipient side, right? Okay. I mean, I'm not the one that usually is the yelling person- No,
Devin: no
Amy Wang: or the one that throws the fit or do whatever, right? Right. It's really been on the recipient side on situations where I've worked with colleagues that have lost their cool, right? And I think, um, again, it takes me back to just having worked in restaurants growing up and getting used to being yelled at by customers.
Devin: That my food order is wrong.
Amy Wang: It's wrong. It's not fast enough.
Devin: Right. What is wrong with you? Right. All those types of things. Just, you're supposed to just make it and get it right and do all of these things really, really quickly. There's nobody else doing anything in this process. [00:26:00] Right,
Amy Wang: right. So either working in restaurants like that, working in just retail jobs-
Devin: Mm
Amy Wang: especially during the holiday.
Devin: Exciting.
Amy Wang: That you just learn to be, I think, calm.
Devin: Mm.
Amy Wang: Right? I don't know. That's one of the things that I feel like the more aggressive someone is at me during a workplace, the more calm I become. And I don't know what it is, but I've had it multiple times where I've worked with someone who threw things at me, right?
Or- Okay ... have, like, really gotten belligerent, and I always just become more and more calm. And maybe that's not the right response, right? Maybe it makes them angrier, but I'm like, "I am not going to-"
Devin: I think it does make people angrier. Mm-hmm. I try to do it. I go through these waves, right? Yeah. Where I'm like, if I'm calm, if I get to the point that I'm calm like that, now I'm being, like, systematical in my approach.
Now I'm being strategic. Now I'm gonna start thinking 20 steps ahead of you. Like, [00:27:00] that's when you need to watch out. Yeah. When I've go- when I've gone calm enough and I'm not quick- Yeah ... you have to watch out. But you've had somebody Your people, multiple-
Amy Wang: Yeah ...
Devin: be belligerent. How do you, how do you handle that?
Amy Wang: I mean, I just talk them- I don't necessarily talk them down, but I just continue the conversation, right? And if they can't calm themselves down, I tell them the conversation's over, right? How, so I mean, I've worked in so much, like, customer service growing up. Right. Right. Not just retail, but I had worked in call centers where, call centers where, um, people were trying to have their vehicles pro- bought back for major automotive.
Devin: Okay ...
Amy Wang: vehicles that were considered lemons. Mm.
Devin: Yep, lemons. Okay.
Amy Wang: Yeah. So I have worked with them where they want their vehicles bought back- Mm ... and we were trained how to be calm and just to talk through the solution, right? Okay ... and having worked in healthcare, you never knew what situation was going to happen.
Devin: Right ...
Amy Wang: and you just think, you know, which probably isn't the best, but you know, you walk away with some of these things like, [00:28:00] "Okay, no one died, so it's fine." You know, we're just gonna be calm and we're just gonna- Right ... figure it out.
Devin: Yeah.
Amy Wang: And I have that tendency and p- maybe it's not always the right reaction, right?
So when people get all, like, aggressive at work, I'm not talking about out- ... in the parking lot or something, then I'm just running. Okay. Fair. I'm not staying around for it. But when you're in a work situation and there's no other option, you either... I just, somehow, I feel like even my body temperature drops unknowingly, 'cause I had to analyze this recently, right?
I feel like my body- Ah ... temperature even calms.
Devin: Your heart rate calms down.
Amy Wang: Everything physically
Devin: calms down. Because this is what you've been trained for.
Amy Wang: Yes. I just try to con- continue the conversation, but if it doesn't work, I'll say, "You know what?" I'm done. We can talk about this when you're calm. Right.
Right? Because we're not gonna take this in a professional setting.
Devin: Mm.
Amy Wang: And so... And it's, y- and sometimes it's really hard for some people, and-
Devin: Yeah ...
Amy Wang: it's something maybe they need to work on. I don't know what to say. Fair. I've, I've been trained this way, like, throughout my life, right? And it may not have been the best training, 'cause I will say [00:29:00] I feel like each time I've had to deal with these, things manifest in my body, right?
Mm-hmm. Like, coming out of it d- from being so calm, it takes a while to, like, let the emotions out. Right. And if you don't, you know, for me, it's manifested in migraines or, like, shoulder and neck tension-
Devin: Mm-hmm ...
Amy Wang: that I'm still trying to figure out how to work out. Right. Because, you know, you just retain all this toxicity in your body.
Devin: Yeah.
Amy Wang: So each time you do that, there is... I feel like there's, like, a personal sacrifice you make to your own physical health that you don't realize- You do ... if you don't find a way to let it go a- immediately after.
Devin: Right.
Amy Wang: And I didn't learn that until recently.
Devin: Mm. I
Amy Wang: think I've been building this up for a long time.
Devin: Right.
Amy Wang: And then it just kinda manifests, right? So, um, I'm sure my PT and my chiropractor love me because I've been visiting them a lot, you know? Right. But, I mean, that's really, I think, what it is. I
Devin: mean, but you don't, you don't get to the head of a department in an organization by not working hard, by not networking, [00:30:00] by not carrying other people's burdens with you, by not doing all of these things, and for me, I think that's an important thing for our listeners to understand.
There's always a trade-off.
Amy Wang: Yeah.
Devin: Right? Like, you go to attend all these conferences and like, "Oh, you know, if you, if you just work really hard, you can have it all." But as you just said, you don't get to have it all, and there's no right or wrong- Right ... of what all is. But you don't get to sleep well at night, and be the head of a department, and be at every kid activity, or be a caregiver for whether that's a child, a parent, a friend, anybody.
Amy Wang: Right.
Devin: There's... Because there's only so many ti- hours in a day.
Amy Wang: Right. Oh, there's so many things that you give up that you don't realize.
Devin: Right.
Amy Wang: Um, I had left a job that I had a, a [00:31:00] boss that wanted to work 7:00 to 7:00 and some days a week. Other people were working 40 hours, right? And so-
Devin: Right ...
Amy Wang: I'm okay working more.
I mean, this is further in my career where I'm like I'm not doing the 100 hours, 120 hours anymore. I'm done.
Devin: Right.
Amy Wang: And, um, but I was still working a lot and, and clearly wasn't very good at, um, building good habits about boundaries- Mm ... when it comes to work and life. And my son had said to me in high school, "Mom- And this was actually me, back up one step.
I had to help my husband because he had gotten injured and I had to take some time off.
Devin: Okay.
Amy Wang: And I was home for a little period of time, and my son said to me, "Mom Did you know that we have never had dinner together on a school night before? In high school.
Devin: It's, that's a, it's a powerful and, and hard thing to hear as a mom.
Amy Wang: Yeah. So [00:32:00] you do g- sacrifice so much in leadership. Yeah. In, you know, especially executive leadership, and I've had, you know, high-level roles for so many years of my career now.
Devin: Hm.
Amy Wang: And I was thinking at the time I was making sacrifices to make sure they would have better education, better home, better life.
Devin: Better ... All the things that you didn't have, right?
Amy Wang: All the things I didn't have. '
Devin: Cause that's, that's what our generation does, right? Yes. We just, we're gonna, we're gonna give them more than we ever had.
Amy Wang: Right, and all the things we didn't have, right?
Devin: Yeah.
Amy Wang: Because growing up in startups, it was like this.
Devin: Mm-hmm.
Amy Wang: You know, there were highs and lows growing up, and I wanted to have consistency for my children. I wanted them to have everything they always wanted.
Devin: Hm.
Amy Wang: Right? What I didn't realize was that what they really wanted was just- You ... attention and just me.
Devin: Hm.
Amy Wang: And it was so difficult, 'cause by that time, I mean, high school, [00:33:00] think about how many years ag- that- Right
had gone.
Devin: Right.
Amy Wang: You know, and even, like, recently, my, my son joked with me because I have a dog that is my little shadow. Mm. And he just follows me around everywhere, and sometimes I don't remember to pet him 'cause he's just there.
Devin: He's just there.
Amy Wang: And my son came up to me, this is, like, a couple days ago, and he's like, "Mom, you forgot to pet him."
I'm like, "Oh," you know, and so I'm, I'm petting my poor dog because he's just sitting there, and he, he literally just is right there all the time. And he's like, "I guess there's two of us that's been neglected."
Devin: And I was like, "Oh my gosh, I, I can't handle you right now." Yes.
Amy Wang: And he's not in high school anymore, right?
This is my ... He's much older.
Devin: Hey.
Amy Wang: And he's like, "See?"
Devin: But it's real.
Amy Wang: But it's real.
Devin: That's real shift.
Amy Wang: Yes. So you can have a lot as a woman in leadership, um, in all these different roles. Yeah. You can have a lot But I don't [00:34:00] know how you can have everything, and I would love to learn from whoever does or have succeeded in having everything.
Devin: Yeah. '
Amy Wang: Cause it wasn't me, and I wish I could say- Mm ... that were, that it was me.
Devin: That's some real shift, Amy. I'd like to know that, too. Like, I'd want, I want access to the fountain of youth.
Amy Wang: Yes,
Devin: please. Um, a time machine.
Amy Wang: Ooh, yes.
Devin: Um, the ability to, uh... What do they call it when you create multiples of you?
Amy Wang: Cloning?
Devin: Yes. I wanna be able to clone-
Amy Wang: Yes ...
Devin: myself, but have, like, an emotional, like, epicenter- ... where I can, like- Control all of them? Yes. At the same time, and, like, be emotionally present, because I don- I don't know how, how people do it. And then when we talk about the manufacturing space, 'cause you know this from, from hiring and, and leading those initiatives, we have a lack of women-
Amy Wang: Oh, yeah
Devin: in those leadership roles. And while it doesn't hold consistently true for everybody, [00:35:00] right, there's outliers, we do know stereotypes exist for a reason, and we know that women typically carry the burden of family- Mm-hmm ... raising a- and doing those things. And so we don't often hear, like, you don't ask or you hear a, a man being asked if they're gonna have a ch- Like, "Are you gonna have children?"
Like, you don't... People don't typically ask a, a guy- Right ... that, right? I can count numerous times throughout my career, the number of times where people ask me like, "Are you gonna have more children? Do you have any children? When are you gonna have children?" Right. Like, I don't know. And then also, that's none of your business.
It's a very inv- invasive- Right ... thing to ask. Um, and, like, you give up something that's, that's huge- Right ... when, when you do that, and we just don't typically put those burden, that burden [00:36:00] on men like we do on, on women, and then wonder why we don't have women that want to work 120 hours.
Amy Wang: Right. I don't recommend it.
Devin: And give up everything. I mean, it's the same reason why I ended up having to leave operations, right? Like, you know, I was a single mom at the time, and you can't... I, I couldn't do for my daughter like I wanted to, and it was her and I. We- I used to tell her, like, "Felicity, it's you and I against the world, right?"
You, you can't do that, so I had to give it up.
Devin: I had to give it up, and it killed me, because you work so hard your whole life, right? Right. In school, and the same thing. Like, graduate in four years. Get out there. You're, you're constantly working, and then you're like- Now I'm, I'm done?
Amy Wang: And then what?
Devin: Right. And then, and then what, right? Like, that's the big question. Then what else happens? Right. So[00:37:00]
it's, it's very, um... I guess it's the realization that that shift is real, and even if you are a man, you only have the same number of hours in your day-
Amy Wang: Right ...
Devin: too.
Amy Wang: Right.
Devin: Right? So you're missing the soccer games or the ballet recital or the whatever. It's just somebody's going to have to miss it if that's what you want to do.
Amy Wang: Right.
Devin: And who's it going to be? Or you're okay not having those. But when you talk to young talent Do you find that they're like, "I wanna be a leader"?
Amy Wang: Not so much these days.
Devin: It's, it's shifting, isn't it?
Amy Wang: Absolutely. It really is, because I think they're smarter. You know, they're better at saying, "You know, I wanna spend time with my family.
I want... These are my priorities." I think it's, they're smarter.
Yeah.
Amy Wang: Right? And, and maybe it, it's just... Or something has definitely [00:38:00] shifted.
Devin: Yeah.
Amy Wang: Um, I think they're realizing it's not worth the sacrifice.
Devin: Yeah.
Amy Wang: Um, so it's really difficult to find leaders, right? And maybe you can do it before you have kids and a family.
Devin: Mm-hmm.
Amy Wang: Um, I mean, I know, like, when I was working my hundreds of hours, it was the early stages of, um, my career, and even into some of the mid-points, but then at that point, I just became this person that just always worked, right?
Devin: Right.
Amy Wang: And I think that's what also kinda ruined some of my, I think, years of balance, 'cause there wasn't any, right?
I was always working. And I will say, growing up in the restaurant business did not help me. It did not, 'cause my parents worked 10:00 to 10:00, te- you know, seven days a week, 365. Um, so there was never time off. Right. I didn't grow up with time off, so I didn't really know better. Mm. Right? But people today know better.
Yeah. My [00:39:00] kids know better, and I hope that, you know, people are better at finding that balance, because that's what, really, life is about, right? It's enjoying all the other aspects. It's not just to work.
Devin: No.
Amy Wang: And unfortunately, I learned the hard way. And, um, and that's the other piece too. Even when you're wor- when you...
So if you're used to working a lot, even when you're physically not at work, mentally shifting- It's hard ... and being present is very hard.
Devin: It's hard.
Amy Wang: And so that's the other thing that my son pointed out to me about my dog, right, is that he's been sitting next to me. He's always sitting next to me, but I'm not there with him.
Devin: You're not present.
Amy Wang: I'm not present. I'm on, talking on the phone. Mm. I'm scrolling my phone. I'm reading a book.
Devin: Right.
Amy Wang: But I'm not present with my dog, and same as, I'm sure, the moments of my kids.
Devin: Right.
Amy Wang: Even when I came home-
Devin: You were still checking email. You're still- Oh ... Teams, Slack, whatever.
Amy Wang: Everything.
Devin: It doesn't, it doesn't stop.
It doesn't end. No. Right. You're always thinking. Because [00:40:00] just because you left the building-
Amy Wang: Right ...
Devin: doesn't mean the work stops.
Amy Wang: It never stopped. So that was a rough lesson, and it's one that I have to remind myself over and over again, right? That- That you
Devin: don't get sucked back in.
Amy Wang: Right. It's important to have resilience, but it's also important to have boundaries.
Devin: Mm.
Amy Wang: And so I have to remember to constantly build these boundaries, just to self-protect, right? Just so that I'm not putting any more on my shoulder and neck.
Devin: Right. 'Cause that's a lot. That's a lot to carry, and I mean, I'm assuming you've had to set boundaries with people as well.
Amy Wang: I try to. Yeah. You know? I- Unfortunately, I'm very giving, generous person.
You are. And sometimes I'm overgiving.
Devin: Yeah.
Amy Wang: And so I have to be better at when I give, set the limitation or expectation up front.
Devin: Mm.
Amy Wang: Right? So even if someone... 'Cause I'm always available to my friends, network, all the time. Mm-hmm. Sometimes too much.
Devin: Mm.
Amy Wang: But I'm better now in saying, you know, "I have 15 minutes."
Devin: Mm.
Amy Wang: Right? So just a [00:41:00] boundary.
Devin: Okay.
Amy Wang: Or, "This is important to me. I will get back to you in a week." But just be really clear. And then- Yeah,
Devin: setting the expectation ...
Amy Wang: set expectations. 'Cause I'm good at sec- setting expectations when it comes to delivery of work, but when it comes to things that crosses over to my personal life-
Devin: It's harder
Amy Wang: it's much harder, and so I have to be better at prioritizing-
Devin: Mm ...
Amy Wang: and really setting the c- clear time box expectations.
Devin: Yeah.
Amy Wang: Not just expectations.
Devin: Interesting. You know, I had a friend that, you know, recently called me out, particularly my role at, at TeamSense. A lot about, a lot of it is about building trust.
It's thought leadership, but it's about building trust with people in the community, and you don't get trust overnight.
Amy Wang: Right.
Devin: And it has to be genuine, and I won't do it if it's not genuine. I don't wanna just take. I, I, I have to give you something in return. And so, like, [00:42:00] I, I was explaining something that I was, I was doing, and she's like, "Devon, you need to stop."
She's like, "There's a difference between, like, building trust and giving and being, um, like, thankful a- and giving people your, your time and your energy, and it's another to think you're gonna earn trust by letting people use you."
Amy Wang: Mm.
Devin: And I was like, "But I'm not... I don't, I don't view it as being used." Mm. And she was like, "You need to step back and look at it objectively.
You can still do these things, but you need to s- to set some, some boundaries."
Amy Wang: Mm-hmm.
Devin: And that's a hard, it's a hard thing to, to hear.
Amy Wang: Absolutely.
Devin: Right? It's another thing to, like, realize that so quickly I'm allowing myself to fall [00:43:00] back-
Amy Wang: Mm-hmm ...
Devin: into that pattern. Um- So it's, yeah, it's, it's hard. You have to set boundaries in your personal life.
Absolutely. And, and at your work.
Amy Wang: And professional. Yeah, absolutely. Right? Especially since we're both very generous in nature and you just wanna give and give.
Devin: It's, that's what you... Yes. But that's, uh, the, again- But then you get
Amy Wang: used.
Devin: You get used. And I think that goes back to your point of, of how we were, we were raised, right?
Like my parents never said no to helping somebody.
Amy Wang: Right.
Devin: And you grew up volunteering at soup kitchens, volunteering in the church, volunteering in the community. Mm-hmm. Like it was drilled-
Amy Wang: Yes ...
Devin: into your... I mean, shoot, when we were very young, um, we were, uh, financially challenged, I will say. We were financially challenged when it was just my mom, my brother and I.
And, um, my mom used to make us volunteer at a soup kitchen- Mm ... before you'd get your few Christmas presents because she couldn't [00:44:00] afford Christmas presents like the majority of kids that we, we knew had Christmas. Mm-hmm. You might get like a coloring book and a stuffed animal, something really small. Um, but it was important that she ch- taught us, like you have more than most.
Mm-hmm. Be grateful for what you have, and then you have more than you need. You don't need those things. Like you need to give back. And so like it's just been ingrained- Yeah ... in my mind, like give back, give back, give back, give back. Like and the greatest way that I've found like I can give back is with my energy.
Amy Wang: Mm-hmm.
Devin: Right? Like I might not have a, a surplus of finances to be able to, to dump into organizations or associations or, or things to help the community, but I can give my time to the community.
Amy Wang: Right.
Devin: But that also needs a boundary.
Amy Wang: Yes. I would agree. Yes. And I've done that even beyond, like, community.
Like, I have helped so many individuals with their careers, job placement, promotions, through my [00:45:00] network, through all those.
Devin: Yeah.
Amy Wang: And, and given and given and given. And sometimes you have to step back and realize, "Wait, did I overdo it for some of these people?" Mm. Right?
Devin: Yeah.
Amy Wang: Did I over, um, help?
Devin: Mm-hmm.
Amy Wang: Where I should be spending my time on maybe some other things.
Devin: Right.
Amy Wang: Right? So I get overly invested, but, I mean, it's a good balance. I mean, I think sometimes there's not enough generous people out there in the world, too, right? Yeah. That's really interesting. But I understand what you're saying. Like, I used to have my kids, we used to deliver, uh, Meals on Wheels on- Yeah
on Thanksgiving Day.
Devin: Okay.
Amy Wang: So we would do that before we would be able to have our own Thanksgiving meal. So that was one of the things that I would have my kids do. We would always do some type of volunteer work-
Devin: Right ...
Amy Wang: um, for holidays, if we can find something, whether it's Meals on Wheels or something else.
And, um, so that was kind of fun.
Devin: Mm-hmm.
Amy Wang: Um, because you, then you feel like you can show there's more to it.
Devin: Yes, and it's also internally satisfying.
Amy Wang: It is.
Devin: Like, it, that fills my bucket.
Amy Wang: [00:46:00] Yes.
Devin: Right? Like, if I, I can, I... But, but you also have to have your bucket filled in other ways. You can't just give and then feel like, "Okay, I put two pebbles in my bucket."
Yeah, right. "But I took five out to do it."
Amy Wang: Right.
Devin: Right? And I use this bucket 'cause that's what the, you know, the kids use these days to, like, for preschool and kindergarten, so I'm still stuck on the bucket for my daughter. That's great. Um, but, you know, speaking of fulfilling people and helping guide them, I mean, you're the reason- Mm
a fundamental reason why Talk Rail Shift exists. Right? 'Cause I, I called you up- ... because you were somebody that was a prospective customer of, of TeamSense, right? Mm-hmm. And I, um, I was given your contact information, and I, I called you up, and I remember the conversation that we had where you were like, "I don't, like, I don't know if I'm gonna be in a position of, of purchasing-
Devin: your product. Do you still wanna [00:47:00] meet?" And I was like, "Well, yeah. I mean, you seem like a pretty amazing-
Amy Wang: Oh ...
Devin: person," right? Like, I just wanted to get to know- Yeah,
Amy Wang: just to chat.
Devin: Right. We sat down. We had lunch. The restaurant guy kept calling me mama.
Amy Wang: Mama. Thank you, mama.
Devin: Yeah, it's so weird.
Amy Wang: You're welcome, mama.
Devin: I, I...
Like-
Amy Wang: That was great. I'll never forget.
Devin: Yes. That is something we will bond over for a long time. Forever,
Amy Wang: yes.
Devin: Um, but, you know, you were like, "Hey, I know this person that helps facilitate podcasts," and I was like, "Oh, well, you know, my CEO thought this is a great way to s- you know, spread thought leadership and, and different ideas."
And then here we are.
Amy Wang: Here we are. And the moment I met you, I was like, "Wow, you're someone I would love to cheer for-
Devin: Thank you ...
Amy Wang: and wanna see successful." I mean, because I love seeing women in leadership, women achieving and being successful, so if I can help-
Devin: Well, thank you ...
Amy Wang: you know, I would [00:48:00] absolutely do it, and which I'm so excited that we're here.
Yes. I mean, this is a huge... Like, from our con- lunch conversation- ... all the way to this. Yeah. I mean, how cool is that?
Devin: I know. Now we're talking some real shift. We're talking about how it doesn't matter- ... how much that you put your head down and work.
Amy Wang: Right.
Devin: You have to defend yourself, you have to stand up for yourself, and you have to do it the right way.
Amy Wang: Yep.
Devin: You might have to make a grown man cry every once in a while. And you have to bring people on the journey.
Amy Wang: Yes, absolutely.
Devin: Because if I didn't bring you on my journey with me, if I wasn't, like, cool, I might not be able to get my initial goal of why I reached out to you. But again, I was like, "Well, maybe I can help her with something," right?
"Maybe there's something I can give her." But you ended up giving to me.
Amy Wang: But this is amazing. I'm so happy to be here.
Devin: Yeah.
Amy Wang: And I'm so happy that we're talking Real Shift.
Devin: We are. We are. So as we close out our very first episode of Talk Real Shift with, with, you know, the person that helped start it [00:49:00] all, if you could go back and talk to 25-year-old Amy- What would you say?
What would you do differently?
Amy Wang: Well, um, wear more sunblock. And
Devin: SPF.
Amy Wang: And SPF, yeah.
Devin: Every day.
Amy Wang: SPF every day. Learn how to do facial massage way earlier in life. But no, for real.
Devin: Fair. Fair. Solid advice.
Amy Wang: But really, though, I think it's important to stop over proving yourself. Yeah. You're good enough as you are.
Devin: That's powerful. You are. You're amazing.
Amy Wang: And so are you, and we have to remember that.
Devin: Yeah, we do.
Amy Wang: Right? We have to remember that. Um, build relationships earlier and as often as you can. Be open to just having a conversation Be open to building a network. Um, protect your energy.
Devin: Yeah. People either tire you or they inspire you.
Amy Wang: Right. And there's so many energy vampires out there. They would love to steal your energy. You have to protect it.
Devin: Mm. [00:50:00]
Amy Wang: Um, speak up confidently.
Devin: Yeah.
Amy Wang: Even if it's scary, even if- Yeah ... it's hard.
Devin: You have to talk some real shit every once in a while.
Amy Wang: Every once in a while you do. Yeah. Right? That's the only way.
Um, don't wait for permission if you wanna lead.
Devin: Ooh, I like that
Amy Wang: one. Sometimes you have just to step up and do it. Yeah. There's nobody else. Who else is gonna do it? Right. It's you, so you just do it. And then understand that, you know, um, resilience and grit matter-
Devin: Mm-hmm ...
Amy Wang: but so does boundaries, and make sure you have them.
Yes.
Devin: Yeah.
Amy Wang: Because otherwise, the sacrifices you make and the lack of recognition you have-
Devin: Mm ...
Amy Wang: you're just going to be carrying that burden like I have, right? Right. That shoulder, neck pain. You don't want it. Right. It's terrible.
Devin: And you can't go back in time.
Amy Wang: You can't go back in time, although we would love to.
Devin: Yes.
Amy Wang: And no matter how much Korean and Japanese skincare I use, it's not w- It doesn't do it.
Devin: Right, right. Wow. Amy, what do you want to promote while you're here? Because you've started, [00:51:00] you're the founder and principal of a new company, so give our listeners a little bit of details- Sure ... because you're taking all this knowledge, and you're helping others now.
Amy Wang: I'm helping others now. So I started my own, um, company just as a solopreneur, uh, BAW Strategic Advisory, LLC. Mm. I think you're supposed to say that after that. Um- And I help CEOs, teams with strategy conversations, organizational conversations, um, product testing, um, thought partnership, all those types of things.
Devin: Yeah.
Amy Wang: Right? Maybe co-branding, and also, uh, partnering to write articles for speaking engagements to talk about new things. Right. I know it's kinda vague 'cause I'm still working a lot of it, but I'm playing with different ideas and concepts in helping influence how companies, how industry look at HR, IT, AI, with the future of work, right?
And trying to do those things with my own personal brand. And so that's kinda why I write so much on LinkedIn. [00:52:00] Um-
Devin: Which I love.
Amy Wang: Thank
Devin: you. It's powerful. In my mind- ... I think all the time, I need to be a little bit more like Amy on LinkedIn and, and post more and have more thought leadership. You're phenomenal at it, and I read it all the time- Thank you
and I'm just like Goodness, this is thought-provoking. Right? And especially at the bottom, like you'll typically put a question- ... like that, that provokes people to, to want to respond or at least reflect on what you shared. Yeah. I'm like, this is like gold nuggets.
Amy Wang: Thank you.
Devin: Yeah.
Amy Wang: Thank you. So yeah, so I'm writing for that, and I'm writing for Shared Services Outsourcing Network, so SSON, SSOW.
Um, so I blog monthly for that.
Devin: Okay.
Amy Wang: So, you know, I encourage everyone to look into Shared Services and the conference that's coming up in next few months. They have one every few months, but definitely sh- check that out. And, and also, um, my little hashtag I've been writing. I know hashtags are probably not the thing anymore, but I've been using it now for- Yeah
a long period of time.
Devin: Okay.
Amy Wang: So #HRRealTalk is what I write.
Devin: Yeah. And- 'Cause we talk [00:53:00] real shift, and you talk HR real talk ... HR real talk. Right. Love it. Love it. See, this was just meant to be because I didn't even know your hashtag-
Amy Wang: Right ...
Devin: until now.
Amy Wang: Really?
Devin: Yes.
Amy Wang: Oh, that's hilarious.
Devin: I don't think... I mean, maybe I've seen it, but I don't think it registered when I came up with the name Talk Real Shift.
That was just me trying to do, do a play on words of like multiple ways that you can use the word shift.
Amy Wang: Right.
Devin: Right? And I wanted to have real talk. No fluff, no scripts- Yeah ... no lies, just real backbone, grit girls conversations, but that's 'cause great minds think alike.
Amy Wang: Absolutely. I love it.
Devin: Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Wang: Yes, but you've gone further with it.
I bought the URL way back when. Yeah. And just it doesn't do anything. I own it.
Devin: Okay.
Amy Wang: Just like I use the little hashtag, which I'm sure many others do, but I took the little handle everywhere I could get it.
Devin: As you should.
Amy Wang: And so I have it.
Devin: Okay. All right. So new company.
Amy Wang: New company.
Devin: We've got blogs. We've got writing.
If they're not following you on [00:54:00] LinkedIn, they should be following you on LinkedIn- Yes ... because you are, um, as somebody pointed out to me the other day, an LinkedIn influencer. I think that's a fair thing to say about you.
Amy Wang: I'm trying to be. I
Devin: think that's- You, you are. I don't think you're trying to be. You are.
Well, thank you. You are. Um, own your crown, as Sheila would say.
Amy Wang: Got it.
Devin: Yes. Put it back. Own your crown. Yes. Right? When it tilts, we just, we just put it back in place. Yes.
Amy Wang: Well, thank you for straightening it out for me.
Devin: Of- I
Amy Wang: appreciate it.
Devin: I'm here for you.
Amy Wang: Yeah. No, this is awesome. I'm here.
Devin: Thank you so much.
Amy Wang: Thank you.
Devin: It's been a pleasure, and until next time, see you on the floor